"I have read that I should be essentially ‘ignoring’ the behaviour to her little brother in order to foster good relationships between them."
I cannot fathom how this could be the conventional advice for parents. This is what my parents did and it made my childhood miserable. My older sister bullied me all the way until she left for university because everyone ignored her behaviour and never stopped her. She pinched me until I bruised and told me I was stupid on an almost daily basis. I was scared of her. She said she would make my life a living hell, and she did.
I'm not casting blame on the letter writer just for being the messenger, and I love Philippa's alternative advice and think it makes a lot of sense. But as I think about starting my own family, it makes me scared that simply ignoring the behaviour is the advice available out there for parents, and the advice my own parents probably accepted because they didn't know any better.
It’s about ignoring bad behaviour but rewarding good behaviour- so it has to go with piling on the attention when she’s behaving well - even if that’s just sitting quietly with brother close by. She will experience a good response when she’s being kind and that will reinforce that behaviour. Sounds like you had an awful time but I don’t think your parents were using the techniques properly - in fact, they sound cruel! (Hoping they were great in other ways).
Sadly your parents were wrong the advice is not to ignore it but to deal with it without making the jealousy worse. I'm sorry your sister was so nasty but you won't be like your parents you will deal with any jealousy between your children and read Phillipa you can deal with it and having children who love each other.
Your childhood experience with a bullying sibling sounds terrible and must have really damaged your self confidence. It’s a tricky tight rope to walk managing a jealous child’s bad behaviour. Pay too much attention to it by punishing her V ignoring it at the younger child’s peril. I think Philippa’s right however in encouraging the child to name her feelings, get them out in the open and find a way to better the situation without shame or guilt.
This advice may have been in your book, Philippa, or somewhere else, but what has served us well so far with siblings is immediately and mostly focusing on the victim of the behaviour. Picking them up, asking them how they feel and making sure they get to express that in front of the “perp”; if they are pre-verbal having a fuss in other ways. It seems to build empathy and also to make the perp understand where the “reward” of attention goes . . . but then we’ve also put in a lot of time making the oldest understand they’re still loved and considered all the time.
I think that works especially well with very young victims but has to be done carefully as they get older lest it becomes a reward for making the biggest possible fuss, rather than parents noticing what is happening.
Just this once I want to stand aside from Philippa's advice and put a different perspective. I'm thoroughly perplexed by the current trend for 'gentle parenting', which when taken literally seems to leave children to work out for themselves where all the boundaries are. One of the responsibilities of being an adult, especially being a parent, is to set clear boundaries and be consistent about them. Some behaviour is bad. Deliberately hitting your little brother is behaving badly. The older child needs to learn that this is not acceptable and will not be tolerated by parents. And the discipline needs to be applied immediately, so that the child learns that actions have consequences, rather than storing the 'punishment' up, like withdrawing a nice activity in the future. This means telling the child off in no uncertain terms. Possibly a couple of minutes of time out (not longer). The problem with punishment and discipline is that parents are often acting out their own frustration, fear and distress at being 'out of control' or having a problem child. But every child plays up. Parents have to learn how to set the boundaries and keep the line, keep control, without acting out punitively. But there's nothing 'gentle' about letting your child get away with hurting your other child. Saying 'you make Mummy feel sad when you hit your brother' is completely meaningless to a 4 year old. She needs to learn that hurting a little person will make a big person cross. And why refer to yourself in the third person by the way (I have never understood why parents do this)? A four year old will soon be going to school. She needs to learn where the boundaries are or she'll get a rude awakening. Alternatively, she'll be adding to the tsunami of stress afflicting teachers who have to deal with a classroom of 30 kids who have all been victims of 'gentle parenting'.
I don’t think this advice is about gentle parenting it’s about recognising naturally violent impulses and trying to turn them into verbal expressions rather than physical expressions
I think it’s important to realise with her 4yo brain she does not have the impulse control, emotional regulation skills or understanding of why she’s angry with her brother to fully modulate her behaviour (many adults even struggle with this too!).
So if she can’t do it, the parent needs to be the behaviour modulator. Ie, place yourself between them when you sense things escalating. Hold her hands as she goes to hit. “I can’t let you hit”. Through your guard rails she’ll learn, in time, to do this for herself. Some children have bigger feelings than others and need more support - that’s ok ❤️
It’s a super tough phase as you need to be ‘on it’ almost constantly. But it does pass! It’s not her ‘being bad’ but simply struggling to express the uncomfortable feelings she has.
It also helps so so much to ‘go there’ with her. “It’s annoying when your brother does x”; “I wonder sometimes if you miss it being just the 2/3 of us” etc… it’s amazing how much this helps them understand the feelings they have, even if they are not super verbal. Good luck! 🙏🏼
This is spot on imho! A four year old has such a limited vocabulary for feelings, unless this learning is scaffolded and supported. Happy, sad, cross can be the extent of it. Exploring and naming feelings across the whole range (not just focusing on the ‘negative’) as well as exploring how we recognise how others are feeling (talking about facial expression, body langue etc) is very empowering, as is talking and thinking out loud about how we can change our feelings and/or express them in helpful ways (“I like to go outside and jump in big puddles if I’m angry” etc etc) and model using techniques like taking some calm breaths when feeling overwhelmed. Really helpful to the child if the adults can model strategies in daily life away from when the child is feeling the feelings! Help them build a tool kit.
The book of yours you have recommended came into my mind just before you mentioned it, Philippa - because it is the best book I know on exactly what you describe here; being 'seen', by having a parent reflect a child's difficult feelings back to them in words. Learning to use words to communicate feelings, rather than acting them out.
How many adults do we work with in the therapy room who still revert to acting painful feelings out? We all do it, especially when we are tired, or hungry, or poorly, or things are just a bit shit. It's often so hard to remember the simplest things - but the concept of trying to put the feelings behind our childrens' difficult behaviour into words, to show them they are seen and heard, has to be THE most valuable tool to tuck up our sleeves, to keep on the top of our virtual first-aid kit! 😊
I am in a similar phase at the moment with my 11mo and 4yo. Sometimes it feels like endless repetition - and I think is any of this working? Then I get little flashes of maturity that remind me we are on a journey, they are both so little, and we will get there. Take yesterday when my 4yo suddenly turned and pinched his baby brother mid card game. After the initial heat of the moment, he said he just felt really angry and felt like his hands needed to do that. I explained it’s okay to feel angry, but not okay to hurt when we feel angry. Then we both got cushions and acted out squeezing, pinching and shouting into the pillows - suddenly the tension was diffused and everyone was laughing. Slowly slowly, we are getting there!
I think we had this one before - would be interesting to see if we all say the same things again or something different!
Pick your books carefully!
Notice your reactions and whether you are identifying with one child more than another (probably not particularly at this point - everyone feels for a baby - but as time goes on) I liked your articulation of why you weren't going to the shops and locating it in your own feelings rather than 'punishment' (which is far too delayed to be effective insofar as these things are anyway and Philippa is so very right to point out what she would learn (further resentment of baby brother) from it being presented to her as such).
I’m sure your book says more about naming the big feelings. I always found that a good method when mine were little. ‘Looks like you’re really cross right now’, etc. Also catch her the one time she’s a total treasure (like NOT attacking her brother) and reward her with attention and cuddles.
How on earth is it wrong to say "Don't hit your brother"? And I do not agree with "I feel sad when you hit your brother." That's a load of psychological stuff a child doesn't need. Just tell her NO! and don't do the "I'm too sad to take you to buy a new dress" stuff. Yeah, I'm the no nonsense FAFO parent.
Reading this account or plea for advice and others very careful responses was interesting, why are we so afraid to be honest about parenting? It’s hell…… we are only human and don’t think things through or analyse our every reaction, most people in my experience are doing their best given the 101 simultaneous demands upon them. It’s really shocking when your children react aggressively to a younger sibling, I used to feel very protective over my son when his older brother was spiteful and they laugh about it now that they’re in their 30’s as though it was all part of childhood and nothing else. Some parents are just confident and manage with a knowing heart that kids do this stuff somehow their strength is infectious, I’ve witnessed with amazement, other older people not feeling so triggered or worried by children learning how to socialise and navigate relationships, parenting is a huge reflection of our own insecurities, in the end, just love them, that’s all they want ❤️
My granddaughter, 6 years older than her brother explained when he was 2 - (she speaks English & Khmer out and about but school is in French - she’s fluent in all 3 languages)
‘Love’s like a brain which grows to fit in new languages - I was worried about sharing mum and dad’s love and mine - I thought we'd all run out of it - but there is always more’
(she is glad her parents read the book all kids wish their parents had read!)
I hugely relate to and sympathise with these challenges as a Mum and Grandma! Firstly the advice to totally ignore poor behaviour and the child that’s carrying it out is slightly skewed imho. The thing about bad behaviour is that it often feeds off attention, we know this as adults, small children can often feel overwhelmed by their emotions and seek your approval. They watch and listen very carefully to what the family do and absorb that. So, ignore bad stuff unless it is immediately dangerous. But don’t ignore or punish the child. They need practical distractions ( my father always said the solution to everything is a cream cracker- but I’m not advocating using food as a methodology, that’s a whole other can of worms LOL) they need you as a loving pstient guide. When you are angry that’s a valid reaction but they pick up on it so remove yourself temporarily. Use kind words and bring them both into the conversation. Myy Mum used to say No one said it would be easy- It will get better though
As well helping her recognise and name emotions in the moment there are picture books and games which can help with this (although it’s not ‘homework’ and shouldn’t feel any more or less important than other books or games) Understanding that we all have these and can chose how we deal with them is crucial. ‘Barbara Throws A Wobbler’ by Nadia Shireen is a favourite, for little ones and much bigger ones!
I appreciate the letter writer's honesty in writing this letter, as sibling relationships are hard to negotiate, especially as someone who's the youngest of three, I can't imagine how hard it was for my parents at times to do so.
I'll admit, ignoring the behaviour gave me some pause, as my instinct would be to take the daughter aside and ask why she did that and try to understand to make sure she won't do that again. But I'm happy that the advice helped the letter writer, and coincidentally I'm reading your book, the book you wish your parents read and I'm enjoying it so much, so thanks for that.
It may be relevant that she was 2 1/2 when her brother was born - old enough to resent the loss of her previous monopoly of parental attention. Where the age gap is much smaller - or bigger, as exemplified by someone else's comment - the first child may not react so aggressively as if they were in the 'terrible twos' when they first felt supplanted.
But the aggression doesn't always come from the older sibling. I'd like to know what can be done about aggression from the younger one towards the elder.
"I have read that I should be essentially ‘ignoring’ the behaviour to her little brother in order to foster good relationships between them."
I cannot fathom how this could be the conventional advice for parents. This is what my parents did and it made my childhood miserable. My older sister bullied me all the way until she left for university because everyone ignored her behaviour and never stopped her. She pinched me until I bruised and told me I was stupid on an almost daily basis. I was scared of her. She said she would make my life a living hell, and she did.
I'm not casting blame on the letter writer just for being the messenger, and I love Philippa's alternative advice and think it makes a lot of sense. But as I think about starting my own family, it makes me scared that simply ignoring the behaviour is the advice available out there for parents, and the advice my own parents probably accepted because they didn't know any better.
It’s about ignoring bad behaviour but rewarding good behaviour- so it has to go with piling on the attention when she’s behaving well - even if that’s just sitting quietly with brother close by. She will experience a good response when she’s being kind and that will reinforce that behaviour. Sounds like you had an awful time but I don’t think your parents were using the techniques properly - in fact, they sound cruel! (Hoping they were great in other ways).
Sadly your parents were wrong the advice is not to ignore it but to deal with it without making the jealousy worse. I'm sorry your sister was so nasty but you won't be like your parents you will deal with any jealousy between your children and read Phillipa you can deal with it and having children who love each other.
Until she left for uni?? That’s horrible for you. Sounds like neglectful parenting rather than a strategy.
This tot is dealing with a new arrival. Hopefully her coping skills can be cultivated before she’s 18.
Your childhood experience with a bullying sibling sounds terrible and must have really damaged your self confidence. It’s a tricky tight rope to walk managing a jealous child’s bad behaviour. Pay too much attention to it by punishing her V ignoring it at the younger child’s peril. I think Philippa’s right however in encouraging the child to name her feelings, get them out in the open and find a way to better the situation without shame or guilt.
This advice may have been in your book, Philippa, or somewhere else, but what has served us well so far with siblings is immediately and mostly focusing on the victim of the behaviour. Picking them up, asking them how they feel and making sure they get to express that in front of the “perp”; if they are pre-verbal having a fuss in other ways. It seems to build empathy and also to make the perp understand where the “reward” of attention goes . . . but then we’ve also put in a lot of time making the oldest understand they’re still loved and considered all the time.
I think that works especially well with very young victims but has to be done carefully as they get older lest it becomes a reward for making the biggest possible fuss, rather than parents noticing what is happening.
Sure! But any successful parenting strategy is going to be based on parents noticing what’s happening.
Just this once I want to stand aside from Philippa's advice and put a different perspective. I'm thoroughly perplexed by the current trend for 'gentle parenting', which when taken literally seems to leave children to work out for themselves where all the boundaries are. One of the responsibilities of being an adult, especially being a parent, is to set clear boundaries and be consistent about them. Some behaviour is bad. Deliberately hitting your little brother is behaving badly. The older child needs to learn that this is not acceptable and will not be tolerated by parents. And the discipline needs to be applied immediately, so that the child learns that actions have consequences, rather than storing the 'punishment' up, like withdrawing a nice activity in the future. This means telling the child off in no uncertain terms. Possibly a couple of minutes of time out (not longer). The problem with punishment and discipline is that parents are often acting out their own frustration, fear and distress at being 'out of control' or having a problem child. But every child plays up. Parents have to learn how to set the boundaries and keep the line, keep control, without acting out punitively. But there's nothing 'gentle' about letting your child get away with hurting your other child. Saying 'you make Mummy feel sad when you hit your brother' is completely meaningless to a 4 year old. She needs to learn that hurting a little person will make a big person cross. And why refer to yourself in the third person by the way (I have never understood why parents do this)? A four year old will soon be going to school. She needs to learn where the boundaries are or she'll get a rude awakening. Alternatively, she'll be adding to the tsunami of stress afflicting teachers who have to deal with a classroom of 30 kids who have all been victims of 'gentle parenting'.
I don’t think this advice is about gentle parenting it’s about recognising naturally violent impulses and trying to turn them into verbal expressions rather than physical expressions
I think it’s important to realise with her 4yo brain she does not have the impulse control, emotional regulation skills or understanding of why she’s angry with her brother to fully modulate her behaviour (many adults even struggle with this too!).
So if she can’t do it, the parent needs to be the behaviour modulator. Ie, place yourself between them when you sense things escalating. Hold her hands as she goes to hit. “I can’t let you hit”. Through your guard rails she’ll learn, in time, to do this for herself. Some children have bigger feelings than others and need more support - that’s ok ❤️
It’s a super tough phase as you need to be ‘on it’ almost constantly. But it does pass! It’s not her ‘being bad’ but simply struggling to express the uncomfortable feelings she has.
It also helps so so much to ‘go there’ with her. “It’s annoying when your brother does x”; “I wonder sometimes if you miss it being just the 2/3 of us” etc… it’s amazing how much this helps them understand the feelings they have, even if they are not super verbal. Good luck! 🙏🏼
This is spot on imho! A four year old has such a limited vocabulary for feelings, unless this learning is scaffolded and supported. Happy, sad, cross can be the extent of it. Exploring and naming feelings across the whole range (not just focusing on the ‘negative’) as well as exploring how we recognise how others are feeling (talking about facial expression, body langue etc) is very empowering, as is talking and thinking out loud about how we can change our feelings and/or express them in helpful ways (“I like to go outside and jump in big puddles if I’m angry” etc etc) and model using techniques like taking some calm breaths when feeling overwhelmed. Really helpful to the child if the adults can model strategies in daily life away from when the child is feeling the feelings! Help them build a tool kit.
The book of yours you have recommended came into my mind just before you mentioned it, Philippa - because it is the best book I know on exactly what you describe here; being 'seen', by having a parent reflect a child's difficult feelings back to them in words. Learning to use words to communicate feelings, rather than acting them out.
How many adults do we work with in the therapy room who still revert to acting painful feelings out? We all do it, especially when we are tired, or hungry, or poorly, or things are just a bit shit. It's often so hard to remember the simplest things - but the concept of trying to put the feelings behind our childrens' difficult behaviour into words, to show them they are seen and heard, has to be THE most valuable tool to tuck up our sleeves, to keep on the top of our virtual first-aid kit! 😊
I am in a similar phase at the moment with my 11mo and 4yo. Sometimes it feels like endless repetition - and I think is any of this working? Then I get little flashes of maturity that remind me we are on a journey, they are both so little, and we will get there. Take yesterday when my 4yo suddenly turned and pinched his baby brother mid card game. After the initial heat of the moment, he said he just felt really angry and felt like his hands needed to do that. I explained it’s okay to feel angry, but not okay to hurt when we feel angry. Then we both got cushions and acted out squeezing, pinching and shouting into the pillows - suddenly the tension was diffused and everyone was laughing. Slowly slowly, we are getting there!
I think we had this one before - would be interesting to see if we all say the same things again or something different!
Pick your books carefully!
Notice your reactions and whether you are identifying with one child more than another (probably not particularly at this point - everyone feels for a baby - but as time goes on) I liked your articulation of why you weren't going to the shops and locating it in your own feelings rather than 'punishment' (which is far too delayed to be effective insofar as these things are anyway and Philippa is so very right to point out what she would learn (further resentment of baby brother) from it being presented to her as such).
I’m sure your book says more about naming the big feelings. I always found that a good method when mine were little. ‘Looks like you’re really cross right now’, etc. Also catch her the one time she’s a total treasure (like NOT attacking her brother) and reward her with attention and cuddles.
How on earth is it wrong to say "Don't hit your brother"? And I do not agree with "I feel sad when you hit your brother." That's a load of psychological stuff a child doesn't need. Just tell her NO! and don't do the "I'm too sad to take you to buy a new dress" stuff. Yeah, I'm the no nonsense FAFO parent.
Reading this account or plea for advice and others very careful responses was interesting, why are we so afraid to be honest about parenting? It’s hell…… we are only human and don’t think things through or analyse our every reaction, most people in my experience are doing their best given the 101 simultaneous demands upon them. It’s really shocking when your children react aggressively to a younger sibling, I used to feel very protective over my son when his older brother was spiteful and they laugh about it now that they’re in their 30’s as though it was all part of childhood and nothing else. Some parents are just confident and manage with a knowing heart that kids do this stuff somehow their strength is infectious, I’ve witnessed with amazement, other older people not feeling so triggered or worried by children learning how to socialise and navigate relationships, parenting is a huge reflection of our own insecurities, in the end, just love them, that’s all they want ❤️
My granddaughter, 6 years older than her brother explained when he was 2 - (she speaks English & Khmer out and about but school is in French - she’s fluent in all 3 languages)
‘Love’s like a brain which grows to fit in new languages - I was worried about sharing mum and dad’s love and mine - I thought we'd all run out of it - but there is always more’
(she is glad her parents read the book all kids wish their parents had read!)
What a brave question and a fab reply.
All respect all.
I hugely relate to and sympathise with these challenges as a Mum and Grandma! Firstly the advice to totally ignore poor behaviour and the child that’s carrying it out is slightly skewed imho. The thing about bad behaviour is that it often feeds off attention, we know this as adults, small children can often feel overwhelmed by their emotions and seek your approval. They watch and listen very carefully to what the family do and absorb that. So, ignore bad stuff unless it is immediately dangerous. But don’t ignore or punish the child. They need practical distractions ( my father always said the solution to everything is a cream cracker- but I’m not advocating using food as a methodology, that’s a whole other can of worms LOL) they need you as a loving pstient guide. When you are angry that’s a valid reaction but they pick up on it so remove yourself temporarily. Use kind words and bring them both into the conversation. Myy Mum used to say No one said it would be easy- It will get better though
Isn’t this a repeat of a problem from last year? Seems very familiar and it would be interesting to know how the original correspondent has
got on in the last few months since it was previously published!
As well helping her recognise and name emotions in the moment there are picture books and games which can help with this (although it’s not ‘homework’ and shouldn’t feel any more or less important than other books or games) Understanding that we all have these and can chose how we deal with them is crucial. ‘Barbara Throws A Wobbler’ by Nadia Shireen is a favourite, for little ones and much bigger ones!
I appreciate the letter writer's honesty in writing this letter, as sibling relationships are hard to negotiate, especially as someone who's the youngest of three, I can't imagine how hard it was for my parents at times to do so.
I'll admit, ignoring the behaviour gave me some pause, as my instinct would be to take the daughter aside and ask why she did that and try to understand to make sure she won't do that again. But I'm happy that the advice helped the letter writer, and coincidentally I'm reading your book, the book you wish your parents read and I'm enjoying it so much, so thanks for that.
It may be relevant that she was 2 1/2 when her brother was born - old enough to resent the loss of her previous monopoly of parental attention. Where the age gap is much smaller - or bigger, as exemplified by someone else's comment - the first child may not react so aggressively as if they were in the 'terrible twos' when they first felt supplanted.
But the aggression doesn't always come from the older sibling. I'd like to know what can be done about aggression from the younger one towards the elder.