Such good advice rooted in evidence. I would only add how lucky your fiancé is to have a partner who is so reasonable and kind. Who is so understanding and genuinely invested in his family, children and parents. The parents seem narrow and selfish and their reasons for this are their problem, not yours. Celebrate your wedding, have your baby (never mind the gender) and enjoy every minute of the life ahead of you. You really deserve to be happy.
I agree with you, but it will always be difficult with parents in law like these, even if you do manage to enjoy your life and reframe your relationship with them. 🌝
It occurs to me that in addition to the splendid advice given here you and your fiancé might want to go to therapy together so you have a third voice to ground you when you are learning to stick to your own boundaries. Especially as I imagine the in-laws will kick quite hard back to start with.
I also wonder whether the children can see their grandparents behaviour quite clearly - it sounds as if they do - in which case your boundary setting will help them to create healthy patterns too, rather than accepting dreadful people get to hold the power. I don’t know how old they are but perhaps its worth talking to them about how you do see the unfairness and how you don’t agree with it?
Yes, I think that’s true. It also occurs to me the less seriously they take the awful grandma as a family unit the less power she has to upset or undermine. If they can all roll their eyes at each other when her behaviour is unacceptable it feels like that will help? ‘There she goes again’ type thing.
We do not have to be kind to people all the time and that meeting of eyes does dispel that awful lonely feeling.
And whilst I am right behind the idea that it is now time to set boundaries, the possible outcomes of that are not binary and if the in-laws-to-be are not to be shut out completely, some seepage will very likely have to be dealt with as the in-laws learn to behave decently.
So much of this advice resonates, even though my situation involves different generations and relationships. The basic principle you describe of adult versus child behaviour is one that my therapist has been try to talk to me about for years! Slowly slowly I have accepted its wisdom and I am now living life ‘honestly and without apology’. Reading this advice this morning has brought it home to me again how important it is to be able to rely upon your own judgement and the wisdom of your own emotional intelligence in the face of controlling behaviour. I hope the OP takes your advice she sounds lovely and she deserves so much better.
I really feel for and admire this writer who is making a great deal of self sacrifice to support their fiancé and children. What a kind and thoughtful person, and I hope this advice helps them step into their confidence a bit more!
IMO the fiancé has an important role here - they’re his parents and he needs to step up and tell his parents that he doesn’t want his ex back, that he’s no longer their young child to be controlled and he needs to fully support the OP. Possibly even alert (not exactly warn) his parents to the realities of the situation and that they can be a part of things - or not
To the letter writer - I know it's much different when speaking/listening. But just to reassure you, with regards your writing, your command of the english language and range of vocabulary is much better than most English people I know 😀. Loved Philippa's response and I hope you are not feeling too alone with it all. X
Actually, I can't make up my mind, from the letter, where the LW is living and whether she is an English (first language) speaker living in a non-English speaking country or vice-versa.
I found the analysis very insightful. But the one point Philippa does not investigate is the relationship between your future husband and yourself.
You are not marrying your prospective mother in law - you are marrying a man who you need to feel completely confident in.
In the future if he is stuck in childlike mode, the outlook for your marriage may be poor.
I’d recommend serious discussion with him about the what-ifs. Perhaps a councillor will help here? It is your relationship with this new man that is important. Don’t marry him until this is resolved to your equal satisfaction. Remember he already knows how to fail in marriage, you certainly don’t want to be a part of history repeating itself.
He may only be "stuck in childlike mode" in relation to, and in the presence of, his mother and father.
This transactional analysis reminds me very strongly of how difficult it was to remain myself when staying in my childhood home, especially after my father died. Having a mother who relentlessly treats one as a child to be ordered around makes it very hard to stand one's own, adult ground. The writer may have much the same problem when his parents are present, even in his own (not their) home.
I entirely agree about the point made: don't marry him until he's resolved. I'm in a comparable position with my partner. Though the wrath and bad behaviour I'm recipient of is from grown-up children rather than parents-in-law. I've long wanted my partner to do the 'adult' boundary-line-drawing, and this not happening has been undermining and nearly broken us. I thought I'd have a child with him, but sadly for us i miscarried (which his children were relieved by). I'm older now and that was almost 18 years ago, so I can say I'm glad I haven't raised a child within this beastly wider family, because it certainly would've been traumatised. But that's because I've not had the security you get when your partner enacts the necessary 'adult' behaviour Philippa describes. I haven't given up that this will happen. But trust me, you don't want to wait as long as I have!
Good luck letter-writer, you really deserve it. But get your fiancé to read and follow PPs advice. And tell him to tell his mother to pack in that 'making the sign of the cross'. She's not the Pope! She sounds more like something out of Rosemary's Baby!! That stuff stops NOW!
I was very touched by your response. And I hope that Philippa, the expert, can offer some words directly to your situation.
I can offer you these thoughts - not from an expert.
Firstly I think it might be useful to consider that even with this amount of time having passed in your marriage, and having weathered the storm so far that there is still time to improve the situation. A chance reading about a similar situation may be the trigger for addressing old wounds in a new way - together with your family - especially with your husband.
Secondly, I think that now the enforced familial jocularity of Christmas is over you can look forward to a New Year and a new leaf together.
We can never change the past, but we can change the future. I feel for you, and wish you everything good in 2026.
That may well be true. To our parent’s we are always a baby ;often that’s quite nice ) but I think we all have difficulty establishing our independence - to a greater or a lesser degree! That’s the sort of thing the writer needs to find out about herself and her fiancée before she marries.
I find it useful to visualise self sacrifice as a slope, and to remind myself, when I notice its gravitational attraction, to resist the pull. In time, the incline isn’t as steep.
Good luck, OP. Philippa’s advice worked for me, with my similarly behaving in laws - setting boundaries, trying not to be drawn in to their way of thinking and being straightforward/clear. It’s great that your partner can see the wood from the trees (my husband could too, eventually, once he started therapy). I’m sorry to say that things only got better for us once my MIL died - but you’ve already stated that’s when you know the relief will come. It will get better.
Fantastic advice given as usual! It’s so sad that the parents are denying themselves the precious love that you bring to their son and kids. I really hope they come to their senses. Take care of yourself
Good luck to the letter writer, I admire how thoughtful you are towards your partners parents, it must be very tiring. I hope with Philippa's advice you can direct your thoughtfullness towards yourself to enable you to take the deserved adult position.
Please OP do not oblige your MIL’s projective identification by disappearing yourself, you are playing out something else in her life by doing so, something/ old feelings that can never be satisfied or resolved for her this way, not even by an endgame of totally disappearing yourself. In order to break through this identification (perhaps even simply some form of racism, complicated by her own immigrant status and need to be accepted). you must be more and more your wonderful self, not less yourself. That leaves less room for misidentification, misinterpretation and ambiguity.
Your tendency to disappear into the background gives you great opportunity for observation and you have described your situation with clarity and a great deal of non defensiveness. I wonder if it’s useful for you to also direct that sense of kind annd curious observation into yourself, to look perhaps at your tendency to assume the [TA] adapted child role here. Because you are indeed adapting to her, to it, to everyone. And it may have been strategic, necessary, for you to have done so when small, or in processes of acculturation. But it is a strategy that has outlived its usefulness here. Move into the [TA] adult state now, as recommended by Phillipa, you are already there really, you just need to inhabit it and stop performing the adapted child - that unapologetic, compassionate and grounded adult state is very much needed by everyone here, especially you, your partner and the children.
Great as always Philippa. Stay strong and true to yourselves and have as little contact with the mother in law as possible. Concentrate on the wise grandchildren they can see whats happening and how distorted and unhealthy the motherinlaw’s attitude is. Absolutely couples therapy, to strengthen your insights and resolve. Good luck and be happy together, all of you.
As Philippa says, you're not going to change them, so why not laugh at them. It takes away their power and provides stress relief for you. Make signs of the cross at random moments, etc.
Don't live your life in fear of this crazy old bat.
I'm thinking of some pranks. Sneak a (very cheap) framed picture of yourself into their house and see how long it takes them to notice. Put their toothbrushes upside down. Best of all, when Battle-Axe makes some silly pronouncement, agree with her. "Oh yes, I am much less pretty than [Ex's Name]. See what happens when you agree with her! generally it takes the wind out of their sails.
And remember, Letter Writer, YOU are the one with power in this situation. Not them. YOU are the one who will marry your fiance and have a happy life and a child. If MIL is gonna be mean about a daughter, then buh-bye she doesn't get to see her. Don't let fear take away your power.
Maybe their Christmas gift to the parents going forward, every single year from now on, should be a beautiful framed wedding photo of their wedding. In a bigger, heftier frame every year :)
'We noticed you still had those old ones. Thought they needed an update'
I share the desire to take the wind out of the in-laws' sails, but the "pranks" idea and 'eye for an eye' seem utterly childish and sullying. And an appalling example to the children, were they to learn their future 'stepmum' behaved in this fashion. No way! Maintain integrity, even if it's for your own self-respect, else you descend to their shoddy level.
I'm surprised you got a 'like', unless it's for the latter part of the comment.
My pranks are my personality. I come from a very scrappy NYC working class family. To me, stories like my grandmother telling my father not to use his real name as a child going to the emergency room are family pride, not stuck up the bum English snottiness. Seriously I couldn't care less what some stranger thinks is childish, an appalling example, blah blah blah. Kindly keep your opinions to yourself in future.
I thought this platform was to help/guide/respond to the original letter-writer. Maybe I was being risk-averse in respect of your suggestion. The thing is, I'm in a not entirely dissimilar situation to hers, only I've been in mine for longer. Pranks and 'eye for an eye' would've been pressing the nuclear button. Please don't upset yourself so much. BW and HNY.
Such good advice rooted in evidence. I would only add how lucky your fiancé is to have a partner who is so reasonable and kind. Who is so understanding and genuinely invested in his family, children and parents. The parents seem narrow and selfish and their reasons for this are their problem, not yours. Celebrate your wedding, have your baby (never mind the gender) and enjoy every minute of the life ahead of you. You really deserve to be happy.
I agree with you, but it will always be difficult with parents in law like these, even if you do manage to enjoy your life and reframe your relationship with them. 🌝
It occurs to me that in addition to the splendid advice given here you and your fiancé might want to go to therapy together so you have a third voice to ground you when you are learning to stick to your own boundaries. Especially as I imagine the in-laws will kick quite hard back to start with.
I also wonder whether the children can see their grandparents behaviour quite clearly - it sounds as if they do - in which case your boundary setting will help them to create healthy patterns too, rather than accepting dreadful people get to hold the power. I don’t know how old they are but perhaps its worth talking to them about how you do see the unfairness and how you don’t agree with it?
Two really worthwhile additional points.
Sometimes it is easier to do the right thing if you feel you are doing it for the sake of your children rather than 'merely' yourself.
Yes, I think that’s true. It also occurs to me the less seriously they take the awful grandma as a family unit the less power she has to upset or undermine. If they can all roll their eyes at each other when her behaviour is unacceptable it feels like that will help? ‘There she goes again’ type thing.
Though that’s probably not kind so idk. But tempting
We do not have to be kind to people all the time and that meeting of eyes does dispel that awful lonely feeling.
And whilst I am right behind the idea that it is now time to set boundaries, the possible outcomes of that are not binary and if the in-laws-to-be are not to be shut out completely, some seepage will very likely have to be dealt with as the in-laws learn to behave decently.
So much of this advice resonates, even though my situation involves different generations and relationships. The basic principle you describe of adult versus child behaviour is one that my therapist has been try to talk to me about for years! Slowly slowly I have accepted its wisdom and I am now living life ‘honestly and without apology’. Reading this advice this morning has brought it home to me again how important it is to be able to rely upon your own judgement and the wisdom of your own emotional intelligence in the face of controlling behaviour. I hope the OP takes your advice she sounds lovely and she deserves so much better.
I really feel for and admire this writer who is making a great deal of self sacrifice to support their fiancé and children. What a kind and thoughtful person, and I hope this advice helps them step into their confidence a bit more!
IMO the fiancé has an important role here - they’re his parents and he needs to step up and tell his parents that he doesn’t want his ex back, that he’s no longer their young child to be controlled and he needs to fully support the OP. Possibly even alert (not exactly warn) his parents to the realities of the situation and that they can be a part of things - or not
Boom! What a fantastic reply Phillipa. Respectful and succinct.
To the letter writer - I know it's much different when speaking/listening. But just to reassure you, with regards your writing, your command of the english language and range of vocabulary is much better than most English people I know 😀. Loved Philippa's response and I hope you are not feeling too alone with it all. X
Actually, I can't make up my mind, from the letter, where the LW is living and whether she is an English (first language) speaker living in a non-English speaking country or vice-versa.
Yes you're right, I made an assumption, good point.
I thought your final comment to the letter writer was lovely by the way.
I'm not saying you're wrong. I made exactly the same assumption! Then I reread the letter and wasn't sure.
Yes don't worry! Me too 😀
I found the analysis very insightful. But the one point Philippa does not investigate is the relationship between your future husband and yourself.
You are not marrying your prospective mother in law - you are marrying a man who you need to feel completely confident in.
In the future if he is stuck in childlike mode, the outlook for your marriage may be poor.
I’d recommend serious discussion with him about the what-ifs. Perhaps a councillor will help here? It is your relationship with this new man that is important. Don’t marry him until this is resolved to your equal satisfaction. Remember he already knows how to fail in marriage, you certainly don’t want to be a part of history repeating itself.
He may only be "stuck in childlike mode" in relation to, and in the presence of, his mother and father.
This transactional analysis reminds me very strongly of how difficult it was to remain myself when staying in my childhood home, especially after my father died. Having a mother who relentlessly treats one as a child to be ordered around makes it very hard to stand one's own, adult ground. The writer may have much the same problem when his parents are present, even in his own (not their) home.
I entirely agree about the point made: don't marry him until he's resolved. I'm in a comparable position with my partner. Though the wrath and bad behaviour I'm recipient of is from grown-up children rather than parents-in-law. I've long wanted my partner to do the 'adult' boundary-line-drawing, and this not happening has been undermining and nearly broken us. I thought I'd have a child with him, but sadly for us i miscarried (which his children were relieved by). I'm older now and that was almost 18 years ago, so I can say I'm glad I haven't raised a child within this beastly wider family, because it certainly would've been traumatised. But that's because I've not had the security you get when your partner enacts the necessary 'adult' behaviour Philippa describes. I haven't given up that this will happen. But trust me, you don't want to wait as long as I have!
Good luck letter-writer, you really deserve it. But get your fiancé to read and follow PPs advice. And tell him to tell his mother to pack in that 'making the sign of the cross'. She's not the Pope! She sounds more like something out of Rosemary's Baby!! That stuff stops NOW!
I was very touched by your response. And I hope that Philippa, the expert, can offer some words directly to your situation.
I can offer you these thoughts - not from an expert.
Firstly I think it might be useful to consider that even with this amount of time having passed in your marriage, and having weathered the storm so far that there is still time to improve the situation. A chance reading about a similar situation may be the trigger for addressing old wounds in a new way - together with your family - especially with your husband.
Secondly, I think that now the enforced familial jocularity of Christmas is over you can look forward to a New Year and a new leaf together.
We can never change the past, but we can change the future. I feel for you, and wish you everything good in 2026.
That may well be true. To our parent’s we are always a baby ;often that’s quite nice ) but I think we all have difficulty establishing our independence - to a greater or a lesser degree! That’s the sort of thing the writer needs to find out about herself and her fiancée before she marries.
I find it useful to visualise self sacrifice as a slope, and to remind myself, when I notice its gravitational attraction, to resist the pull. In time, the incline isn’t as steep.
Good luck, OP. Philippa’s advice worked for me, with my similarly behaving in laws - setting boundaries, trying not to be drawn in to their way of thinking and being straightforward/clear. It’s great that your partner can see the wood from the trees (my husband could too, eventually, once he started therapy). I’m sorry to say that things only got better for us once my MIL died - but you’ve already stated that’s when you know the relief will come. It will get better.
Fantastic advice given as usual! It’s so sad that the parents are denying themselves the precious love that you bring to their son and kids. I really hope they come to their senses. Take care of yourself
Good luck to the letter writer, I admire how thoughtful you are towards your partners parents, it must be very tiring. I hope with Philippa's advice you can direct your thoughtfullness towards yourself to enable you to take the deserved adult position.
Fantastic advice. You are so measured and smart. I hope this person gets real clarity from this. Hope she never feels erased and unseen again.
Please OP do not oblige your MIL’s projective identification by disappearing yourself, you are playing out something else in her life by doing so, something/ old feelings that can never be satisfied or resolved for her this way, not even by an endgame of totally disappearing yourself. In order to break through this identification (perhaps even simply some form of racism, complicated by her own immigrant status and need to be accepted). you must be more and more your wonderful self, not less yourself. That leaves less room for misidentification, misinterpretation and ambiguity.
Your tendency to disappear into the background gives you great opportunity for observation and you have described your situation with clarity and a great deal of non defensiveness. I wonder if it’s useful for you to also direct that sense of kind annd curious observation into yourself, to look perhaps at your tendency to assume the [TA] adapted child role here. Because you are indeed adapting to her, to it, to everyone. And it may have been strategic, necessary, for you to have done so when small, or in processes of acculturation. But it is a strategy that has outlived its usefulness here. Move into the [TA] adult state now, as recommended by Phillipa, you are already there really, you just need to inhabit it and stop performing the adapted child - that unapologetic, compassionate and grounded adult state is very much needed by everyone here, especially you, your partner and the children.
Great as always Philippa. Stay strong and true to yourselves and have as little contact with the mother in law as possible. Concentrate on the wise grandchildren they can see whats happening and how distorted and unhealthy the motherinlaw’s attitude is. Absolutely couples therapy, to strengthen your insights and resolve. Good luck and be happy together, all of you.
As Philippa says, you're not going to change them, so why not laugh at them. It takes away their power and provides stress relief for you. Make signs of the cross at random moments, etc.
Don't live your life in fear of this crazy old bat.
I'm thinking of some pranks. Sneak a (very cheap) framed picture of yourself into their house and see how long it takes them to notice. Put their toothbrushes upside down. Best of all, when Battle-Axe makes some silly pronouncement, agree with her. "Oh yes, I am much less pretty than [Ex's Name]. See what happens when you agree with her! generally it takes the wind out of their sails.
And remember, Letter Writer, YOU are the one with power in this situation. Not them. YOU are the one who will marry your fiance and have a happy life and a child. If MIL is gonna be mean about a daughter, then buh-bye she doesn't get to see her. Don't let fear take away your power.
Maybe their Christmas gift to the parents going forward, every single year from now on, should be a beautiful framed wedding photo of their wedding. In a bigger, heftier frame every year :)
'We noticed you still had those old ones. Thought they needed an update'
I share the desire to take the wind out of the in-laws' sails, but the "pranks" idea and 'eye for an eye' seem utterly childish and sullying. And an appalling example to the children, were they to learn their future 'stepmum' behaved in this fashion. No way! Maintain integrity, even if it's for your own self-respect, else you descend to their shoddy level.
I'm surprised you got a 'like', unless it's for the latter part of the comment.
Humour is a good coping mechanism sometimes
Thank you so much for your much-needed opinion on my personality. I shall certainly give it the consideration it deserves in the future.
I commented on your pranks idea rather than your personality.
My pranks are my personality. I come from a very scrappy NYC working class family. To me, stories like my grandmother telling my father not to use his real name as a child going to the emergency room are family pride, not stuck up the bum English snottiness. Seriously I couldn't care less what some stranger thinks is childish, an appalling example, blah blah blah. Kindly keep your opinions to yourself in future.
I thought this platform was to help/guide/respond to the original letter-writer. Maybe I was being risk-averse in respect of your suggestion. The thing is, I'm in a not entirely dissimilar situation to hers, only I've been in mine for longer. Pranks and 'eye for an eye' would've been pressing the nuclear button. Please don't upset yourself so much. BW and HNY.